tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post1614701325717940483..comments2024-02-25T13:49:40.587-08:00Comments on Philoloblog: Devilry in the Lord of the RingsPhilologushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02107301685112950857noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post-72628197880138786632016-09-28T23:23:54.084-07:002016-09-28T23:23:54.084-07:00Thanks, I guess something like that must be the un...Thanks, I guess something like that must be the underlying situation.Philologushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107301685112950857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post-39190356402366982682016-09-28T23:23:44.380-07:002016-09-28T23:23:44.380-07:00Thanks, I guess something like that must be the un...Thanks, I guess something like that must be the underlying situation.Philologushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107301685112950857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post-12580262046055299222016-09-28T22:16:39.247-07:002016-09-28T22:16:39.247-07:00When I wrote 'with the possible exception of G...When I wrote 'with the possible exception of Gandalf' I was simply thinking that he knows about Morgoth, not that he does not use a word in a language of Middle-earth.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17445569779316340180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post-43531656208651223722016-09-28T22:14:04.586-07:002016-09-28T22:14:04.586-07:00I think that it is quite clear how here the charac...I think that it is quite clear how here the characters speaking, with the possible exception of Gandalf, are using some word in their language that has been translated in English as 'the Devil' or 'devilry'. How comes there are such words in their languages? Simple, because those languages carry the memory of a supernatural being of malignant powers, who could be Morgoth, yes, but also Sauron (and then becomes suitable with Saruman and the Orcs). The idea that such a being must have rebelled against God or any other specific religious association we today connect with the word must not be assumed to be present to those characters, but the fundamental ideas implied in the usage of the word (deceit, mischief, malignant powers) are instead there.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17445569779316340180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post-20389133945468422016-09-28T12:24:55.796-07:002016-09-28T12:24:55.796-07:00Thanks! I thought someone would point this out. I ...Thanks! I thought someone would point this out. I was putting it the way the new reader (or a hobbit) would see things. "Devilry" stands out as one of the few Judaeo-Christian concepts in LR - or even the only one. I suppose Gandalf must know about Morgoth/Melkor but the text doesn't suggest that any of the human characters who use the word "devilry" do. I don't think readers could have been meant to import knowledge of the Silmarillion or Legendarium into their reading of LR as it wasn't available when LR was written - literary theory would suggest that a book be read as it was presented.Philologushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107301685112950857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post-69704147754341575192016-09-28T05:49:39.011-07:002016-09-28T05:49:39.011-07:00"Middle-earth is pre-Christian. There is no ‘..."Middle-earth is pre-Christian. There is no ‘devil’," — I'm not sure what you mean by this. The concept of both devils and The Devil long predate Christianity, in both Judaism and other religions. And certainly Satan and other fallen angels (demons) have an analog (I would say, identity) in Melkor and the evils Maiar. Aelfwinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750294376581801762noreply@blogger.com