tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post9024416403804392147..comments2024-02-25T13:49:40.587-08:00Comments on Philoloblog: Sources of Tolkien’s language-makingPhilologushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02107301685112950857noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post-16998452138953204732017-11-29T12:53:11.921-08:002017-11-29T12:53:11.921-08:00To expand on that a bit: In "external" h...To expand on that a bit: In "external" historical terms, we know that Tolkien associated certain sounds with certain meanings, and that he often drew those associations from the languages he knew/encountered. That fact alone is enough to account for numerous resemblances between his roots/bases and those of especially the IE languages (with which he was most and most widely familiar). What we're saying, though, is that at least at one point Tolkien more than implied that his invented languages were _intended to be seen_ as underlying the IE languages, in a genetic relationship (as opposed to mere borrowings). In "Words and Devices" we use that as launching point and frankly justification to explore the many resemblances to be found in his languages, especially at the level of root/base forms and meanings, with various "real world" languages. <br /><br />And we did so for two chief reasons: 1) because _at the time_ (as Tolkien linguists of a certain age will recall) there was a very strong tendency to view Tolkien's languages as completely _de novo_ and having _no_ relationship, intended or otherwise, with those of the "real world" (and to assert the same); and 2) because it was fun and, we thought, instructive, to follow these threads through the "real world" language(s) that likely inspired Tolkien's personal associations. Aelfwinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750294376581801762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post-32798931536958450602017-11-29T12:43:09.587-08:002017-11-29T12:43:09.587-08:00"But I don’t think the middle premise, that n..."But I don’t think the middle premise, that ned- is a ‘rule-driven’ development from NAT-, holds water."<br /><br />I don't either, in that I don't think Tolkien worked out any such rules, or was ever concerned to do so (certainly I've never seen any evidence of it). But then, Pat and I weren't claiming anything quite so strong as this (as I think we made clear in our column). What we did claim (and I still do) is that many of Tolkien's bases/roots do bear more than chance resemblance to IE roots, and (in light of what is said about Taliska)* that this resemblance was intended to be seen as a due to a genetic influence of (at least) Taliska on the later IE languages (as opposed to mere borrowing into IE from Tolkien fictive languages). <br /><br />* "Yet other Men there were, it seems, that remained east of Eredlindon, who held to their speech, and from this, closely akin to Taliska, are come after many ages of change languages that live still in the North of the earth." I don't think it's at all controversial to claim that this implies a _genetic_ relationship.Aelfwinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750294376581801762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post-46117781579751681672016-09-04T12:15:15.361-07:002016-09-04T12:15:15.361-07:00Are you in need of a Loan to pay off your debt and...Are you in need of a Loan to pay off your debt and start a new life? You have come to the right place were you can get your loan at a very low interest rate. Interested people/company should please contact us via email for more details.jubrinunityfinancialloan@gmail.com<br />Loanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03144894712150321430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post-19537401901292028582016-04-09T14:01:51.834-07:002016-04-09T14:01:51.834-07:00I agree with all these points, and I should have t...I agree with all these points, and I should have thought to bring them in. As soon as I get my hands on the new edition of A Secret Vice, I'll be able to see how close to or wide of the mark I am!Philologushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107301685112950857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2911296529257937707.post-54940130849177094872016-04-02T13:51:42.263-07:002016-04-02T13:51:42.263-07:00That was a very interesting read, thank you.
I l...That was a <i>very</i> interesting read, thank you. <br /><br />I like the idea of ‘fitness’, though it may, of course, also open up for some more random grasping at accidental similarities (or should not believe Tolkien's dismissal of any connection between Elvish √ÞAW and Greek <i>σαύρα</i>?).<br /><br />A couple of random thoughts that came to me while reading: <br /><br />The VAN- may have ceased being applied to the Valar, but it was instead applied to the first tribe of Elves led by Ingwë – the connection here to Yngvi-Freyr, the Vana, seems almost to present itself to me, though I hesitate to suggest it a conscious choice by Tolkien. <br /><br />Driving a car in Finland, I noticed helpful signs giving the temperatures of road and air – tie and ilma. I could not help but think of Tolkien's Ilmen, and later, reading Tolkien's notes in PE17 to <i>omentielmo</i> (p.13) making <i>tië</i> a word for path / road, I was forcefully reminded of this again. Troelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07515711722551393026noreply@blogger.com